Hunting Dog Training

I could not agree with you more! There are many ’self proclaimed animal rights activists’ who feel they know everything about dogs and their gentle ways are the only way to go about things. While I agree that if training can be done in a gentle way and produce positive results then that is fantastic. Many of these rescuers etc just can’t get it through their heads that some breeds need gentle training while with others this absolutely will not work. If you take working line corsos, presas, filas etc and try to train them with these soft training method you will get no where and are going to end up with disaster. I took my corso pup to a puppy kndergarten class in Calgary and was told to take the choker off. the lady was so rude as if a choker was the most cruel thing ever. I walked right out and told her she had no idea how to deal with dominant breeds. I mean really, my dog is very well trained but no one can predict their dogs behavior 100% of the time. If a squirrel happens to catch her eye or something else and she decides to bolt my 120 pound dog will pull lil’ 105 pound me to the ground if I don’t use a choker or pinch collar. It is for safety of not only me but my dog. what if she tried to run in front of a car? And I used to support the SPCA. I do not anymore. The workers here are the same way. Not all of them but enough to put me off. They also seem to only focus on things that are in the public eye. they know full well about animals who suffer on the reserve around my town but do nothing. Dogs were shot here because they were starving and resorted to attacking local wildlife. Muffin sized puppies are left out in -20 snow but they do nothing because we are in a small town out of their way. So geez, they must really care about dogs??? I really hear where you are coming from. Try not to let them get to you. There are just as many people who think like you.
Shell P—-
You are right about the specialized rescue groups. I personally don’t have a problem with these because they only focus on one breed and they know all about it. It is very comendable that they spend so much of their own time and money to help out their chosen breed.
However, as I perviously mentioned- some breeds like Italian Greyhounds for instance do not do well with any sort of hard hand training. They do best with lots and lots of praise. But you CANNOT properly train ALL breeds like that. I’m glad you worship Ceasar Millan- he is a great trainer. But I have never seen him train a presa, or fila or such. Trust me- If I was walking a Fila down the street and you were walking with your toddler or little feefee pooch you had better want me to have had the good foresight to use a pinch collar and to have shown the dog that I am the boss and not him. This doesn’t mean hitting the dog or being mean but it does involve corrective training and being extremely firm. It is not a BAD thing and I don’t inderstand why some people feel that it is. ( many shelter volunteers/groups are so against it. Maybe there would be far less dogs surrendered/abandoned if people could train them better.) Dogs crave to know who is boss. In a wolf pack the alpha male and female will will bite and attack to prove their place in the pack and our domesticated dogs whether chihuahua or rotti will do the same if left to it. Dominant breeds need to be shown their place to make them safe for the public and I’m sure the majority of people would rather see my corsos wear a choker and get the odd hard yank than have my dog only trained with “love and treats” and end up charging at another dog/person and me just have a regular collar and not be able to hold her back. Then she’d likely be put down. How loving is that??? I really like Brad’s training methods from “At the end of my leash” but again he does not train working line corsos, filas, presa etc that are highly dominant.

The majority of rescue workers are volunteers. They are just pet owners, pet owners don’t know that much about breeds, breeding, training, etc.
That being said: Everyone has different opinions on training methods. I work with APBTs, and I have found that NOTHING but the Halti works with them. I’ve tried Prong, Pinch, and even the Choker. The Halti was the only one I’ve had success with. I don’t recommend the prong to dog owners, I recommend lead training. By recommending and standing behind it as a product, and I put it into the wrong hands, I’m not doing my job as a rescue worker.
What was the problem with the Weimaranerr? Its GOOD that the dog was being re homed, at the very least its getting it out of the hands of ignorant people who use dogs as burglary alarms. Not all dogs show definite personality or temperament traits of the breed. Many people say that Siberian Huskies aren’t worth a nickle in the protection business, but I’ve seen Sibes that are very loyal and protective. They are outside the norm. Perhaps the dog in question was outside the norm. Many Weimaraner’s are “softies”, they aren’t engineered to bark and growl.
Many people disagree with the electroshock collars because they believe that its extremely painful. The most it does is give the dog some discomfort. I personally prefer scent collars or sing collars to shock collars, they have the same effect without the discomfort.
And as for your volunteer work, you were VOLUNTEERING. You don’t get to say what you do and do not do. You are there to help them out with what they need done. If they need the pens cleaned instead of a sit-stay lesson, you should have done it.
I volunteer at shelters daily, some days I’m working with the dogs on basic obedience and moderate house training, others I’m bathing, feeding them, cleaning pens, filing paperwork, whatever needs to be done. I’m a qualified trainer, but I’m not too good to help them when and where they need it.

The vast majority of dog owners don’t know anything much at all and rescue workers are simply volunteers – they are not educated to breeds or training or much of anything. There are some, of course, that have an excellent knowledge base but the percentage is sort of like what it out there in the rest of the world, pretty low. Having a differing opinion regarding training tools or techniques doesn’t make one not know anything but it can often exhibit a limited exposure and liking or disliking the use of training tools isn’t an indicator of lack of knowledge or having it either.
Yes, a lot of them are simply very ignorant regarding dogs and are simply just trying to make themselves feel good for ‘helping’ but again, volunteer and often you don’t get to pick and choose the experience level of those that volunteer
add: Thinking the same as someone else is just what they are doing and you and animalgu… and some others are not really any different. Being limited in capabilities to train or on varieties of methodologies is all that their ignorance is based upon and that is what your and animalgu…’s are evidencing as well. The tools do not make the trainer. Anyone that considers a chain training collar a ‘choker’, well, that evidences their lacking. I think the attitude of the rescuers is not much different than your own actually.

Well I can tell you that I have been in rescue for over 20 years. Some breed rescues are governed by the breed club itself and some are not. National rescues have so much politics within their own organization and big ego’s that it is pathetic. Not all rescues are alike. There are many smaller rescues popping up that are trying very hard to make a difference. What people don’t understand is that when they inquire about a dog we have, we have evaluated the dog and know what kind of home would be good for the dog. Remember these are abused, abandoned and societies throw a ways. They are not perfect dogs. No not everyone in rescue is a certified trainer but when the choice is put the dog to sleep or put it with someone who can hang on and help until a more experienced volunteer can take the dog then so be it. In a perfect world, everyone would volunteer to help rescued dogs. Unfortunately, most people don’t want to help out because they are busy. Well to be honest, we are busy too, We spend hours transporting dogs that are fostered in our homes and live like part of the family. We run to vets offices daily. We get tons of emails from people who are less than serious because they want the perfect dog. Well honey in rescue there is no perfect dog. The original owners have turned them into the nightmares that we see everyday. We do what we can with the people that are willing to help us. We too have full time jobs, families, homes to take care of and our own pets. We do this in the little spare time we have. There are not enough of us to go around so we just thank our lucky stars for the people that are willing to help. I wish you lived in the US because there are tons of rescues and shelters here who would like to clone you and pass you around.
Sometimes it is hard to be so cheery to people who contact you and want a dog that is housetrained, does not bark, and is basically perfect. We tend to get the calls from the idiots w ho have a 9 yr old dog that they have to get “RID” of because they bought a new pup and it is not working out. Right now I have one sitting in my house whose owner burned him seven times with a lit cigarette. Pardon me for not being cheerful. Yes I have attitude because my job is to make sure the next home that adopts this dog is going to be the final home for him. I will reject any home that even hints that they have dumped a dog or taking it to a shelter for a stupid reason. Sorry to go on but this is a touchy subject and trust me, I could tell you stories that would make your hair stand on end.

I have worked with a rescue for yrs retraining the dogs no one can handle and the rescue had many people that can not tell colors, or a mutt from a purebred, let alone any behavior knowledge. Plus most never write people back. A Lab Rescue I wrote to told me Labs are not good with other dogs and do not do well in a home that rescues dogs. OK, so all the Lab foster homes only have 1 at a time? I don’t think so.

I totally agree with you, and animalgurl. Some rescue members are really good, those that actually take the time to learn eveything they can about what they are doing. I hate when people say, “oh I love animals” but don’t bother learning anything about them. If you love something you want to know about it. Thats my opinion anyway. But because they work with dogs or whatever, some people think their word is gospel. Same with vets. I know some pretty ignorant vets, with nutrition and breeds and that sort of thing. A load of rescue workers are idiots.
Shell P, then you’ve never had to train anything more than a Border Collie or a Labrador if thats all you had to use! Ha! Anyone could train a nice little working collie with “a sharp word and treats”! Dogs like Dobes and good GSD’s (those Germans know how to make ‘em) challenge everything, annoyingly enough, and theres no point pretending that they don’t, because thats exactly what causes accidents and given them a bad name. “Sharp words and treats” without any real training.
Shell P and everyone else with this opinion, I would LOVE to give you a Yugoslavian Doberman, let you “train” him and see how he obeys you in a field when he see’s a rabbit. Or smells one.
You need to have a dog proof trained before you can say its fully trained, and even then you don’t take any chances. I mean Jeez, you don’t get car without knowing how to drive it! You shouldn’t get a dog without knowing how to train it!
Prongs are NEEDED for some dogs, not all dogs. E-collars are even needed for some dogs, with an unreliable recall for example.
You would thank God for deciding to learn how to use an e-collar on your dog that previously had a picky recall when he gets off his lead in traffic and see’s a cat, and yet comes straight back to you when you call.
Go Frankie!!! (And animalgurl and a few others!)

1st You seem to ‘confuse’ Rescue with Animal Shelters! Shelters are usually run by ‘individual county or city government’. They ‘look’ for Volunteers to do just what you put down as ‘too good’ for you to do! Because of the lack of help in those areas, they generally decide that there are too many animals to handle in a healthy environment! Posing possibilities of disease,etc. They are NOT usually interested in ‘retraining’ they only want to hold them till their either ‘found’ by owners or adopted out to new ones. Their sole purpose is to remove free roaming animals from the streets or capture vicious ones.
“Rescue Groups” go into the Animal Shelters & usually specialize in certain ‘Breeds’ to pull out ,with their own money; foster in the members group homes & retrain so that they can be adopted out (or end up loving & keeping them!)
And by the way, I have never had to use anything stronger than a sharp word, a treat, time & love to train any animal I’ve ever had- Maybe you should try Discovery Channel’s ‘Dog Whisper’ show?